Unpopular opinion: we're hating on the extreme event too much
By - potatotimer
to add in "give 3*/4* units a boost"
as others are saying, they can also just give them grids, not necessarily an additional boost. so as not to limit said units in specific events but also for other contents like CS or LAs
The issue is that although all Hoenn pairs get a buff, most of the strikers and techs can't really be used thanks to Tough Skin. However, the cool part is that the 3/4 gacha supports become integral to team building in this event, the main one being Roxanne, but others like Drake and Liza can join in on the fun. It has potential, but Tough Skin is a huge flaw and should be lessened or removed entirely in the next one, if that happens at least.
What does tough skin even do?
It reduces non supereffective damage by a LOT to the point where a 3/5 fully grided ex Sceptile does 500 damage on leaf storm to Empoleons in Archie battle. It even worse in Maxie's battle since the zards have +2 evasion and icing on the cake is Kyogre is literally the ONLY hoenn unit with electric type dps
>s Kyogre is literally the ONLY hoenn unit with electric type dps
Also hillariously, Thunder **CAN'T MISS** while it's raining LOL.
Always give prestige to the Charizard😙
reduce nonsuper effective dmg
Oh, the concept is good, that's for sure. It's cool that it's restricted to Hoenn pairings and I agree with your pros. But the execution is TERRIBLE. The bonus is ridiculously unbalanced.
Was this event datamined? I feel like I missed it and so does everyone else. This might be the reason why everyone is freaking out, you know, aside from the fact that it’s difficult.
I believe it was in the data mine although people ignored it I guess. probably for the master pairs
A lot of people skip over the details of each individual battle. And even looking at the data on paper, it's hard to tell how it will work in execution. What's most important when looking at datamines is evaluating all new units, getting the dates for banners & events, and the amount of gems that can be obtained.
Another thing to keep in mind is that because of the way AI works in this game, you can't just look at the AI script like you can in FFRK, since in FFRK prety much all end game fights are 100% scripted as far as their moves go.
For example [here's the AI script for the FFI version of the Dragon King fight](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFRecordKeeper/comments/m9gmp1/dragonking_bahamut_i_door_of_light_enemy_stats/) as you can see it's prety much scripted, not much randomess going on.
But when we have things like CS MM, the moves that the enemy does change depending on the options you pick for the fight.
In fairness the pins weren't the *only* reward; we also got 1300 gems. I agree that there should be more though. This event felt kind of sudden and slightly underwhelming once completed.
They should've made these fights stamina free so I can try out new stuff whenever I want. It's not like the drops are any better (read: far worse) than those in training mode anyway (so they can just remove them and no one would care).
If you lose or quit the battle you don't use any stamina
I know, and it's still stupid. Also this doesn't allow me to start the battle if I have less than 20/30 stamina to begin with.
There's literally no point in making it cost stamina. Just get rid of the post-battle rewards since these fights actually drop less than training mode stages so there's literally no point.
eh, that this only gets you pins and 1300 gems for completing it seems like a good attempt at hard content with rewards that are nice, but not so amazing that not getting it causes me to quit the game in a fit of rage.
I agree with this analysis, even if I did spend all day winning three times against Groudon
I think people were very quick to judge because it couldn't be battled like usual. In just the first day it's been live I've seen the opinion go from "it's impossible without Groudon and Kyogre" to "EX May/Brendan/Steven might be able to beat it", and now I've just seen someone do it with 1/5 non-EX Wallace.
If we just give the good players a bit of time they can find pretty cheap ways to beat even something like this
there are 3 days left for the event to end and you can only finish it with a brendan and a may or wallace or steven or the master pairs, without that you can't finish it, in the end not even the good players saved the f2p that don't have these characters
3 is right on the money. The rush I felt when I finally beat Ultra Hard Maxie was SOOOOO INVIGORATING!!!
Also, at least people are clearing the battles without Maxie or Archie, or even May or Brendan, so it's clearly not whale-oriented like the Prestige Event (never again, DeNA! Never, EVER again!).
Yeah but those need luck to pull for 3/5 wallace
It is still whale-oriented, just less so than the Prestige.
See, I would feel compelled to agree with the first points, if Dena hadn't Already done this type of thing successfully (for the most part):
The Time Trials, the difficulty was in how fast you could do it, sometimes it might have seen extreme, but some people still managed to do it successfully, some even using an *Egg* Pokémon (Magneton MVP).
And the new Legendaries fight missions. Those asking us to use different teams and change up our formulas around.
This event just felt like a bad idea all around. An excuse to make us get the Master Pairs that aren't even both in One banner, making the spending even double. I am a long time player, and pretty forgiving to bad decisions (I failed one of the Gym Leaders Time Trial, and still liked them), so yeah... This was bad imo.
And like 80% of the units aren't even usable. They don't have grids, some rely on teammates that'd die in one hit, some rely on flinch, and many of them are physical strikers. And from my understanding only super effective attacks really do any damage and I only have 1 water type to pick. It's so many restrictions that it makes it super hard to compete. It doesn't force you to use weird teams so much as to pick from one or two viable teams.
Pretty much, I have both Wally and Steven EXed max level. They felt useless against Groudon.
If this list of characters had the same boost, but the lower stars could actually put up a fight, this wouldn't be So bad.
I can't even beat small Groudon. My best units in this fight are lunatone, milotic, and pelliper. Pelliper ONLY exists to set up the rain and nothing else. Lunatone buffs. But my milotic is 1/5 0/20 so he's nowhere near strong enough to even beat small Groudon. Maybe if lunatone or pelliper had any kind of grid but they don't.
Pelliper can confuse with Hurricane and that's what made me win with small Groundon. I had Milotic 1/5 no Ex, Pelliper and Duknoir. Milotic whirlpooled all enemies and then brine and Sync Groundon. Pelliper 1st turn trainer move 2nd rain dance and then hurricane until it confused his target(then try to confuse others) with another rain dance after first sunny day. Duknoir existed basically only to rise crit rate and die from sync move or sometimes even before it.
Following up I just cleared it with Liza instead Phoebe and my post should be up soon if you are interested
I'd love to see it! Right now, I'm considering seeing how toxic stall with 3/5 metagross would go. Otherwise, I'm waiting to pull on some banners, champion stadium for 5* power ups, and to get my stamina back so I can get level 135 on some units like Wallace.
Edit: turns out, just immune to being poisoned. Awesome.
I think it's because people have gotten so used to cakewalking events that they've forgotten what the game can be like. When I started at around August time, I was getting punished by everything and couldn't even do basic FFBs because I was not adequately spec'd, even if the game said I was level appropriate. This event, at least initially, made the game feel like that again.
It's only been a day, so more strats could come around. A few hours ago, I'd resigned myself to only being able to beat Stage 1 Maxie. Since then, I've demolished Stage 2 Maxie and Stage 1 Archie without many problems. It was nice to try out Hoenn pairs I would not have tried originally. Although, I have absolutely nothing for Stage 2 Archie since I do not have Brendan or any Hoenn Leaf pairs.
Although I do agree that is still overtuned, I reckon people will finding all kinds of strats over the coming days and walking through it, blindfolded.
I just don't like how the event too strongly suggests to pull for Kyogre/Groudon (like games which push P2W too hard).
However, despite all of this, the high difficulty made it satisfying when you actually beat it without those pairs. When I won without Kyogre/Groudon, it felt like I was going "F U Dena" which was actually really satisfying.
I agree with most of what you said. The event is an interesting new thing that could be great, but it was poorly executed. The only thing I don't agree with is that I didn't have fun for a second with this event, but that's just personal preference, and with the changes you suggested, I think I would have more fun in the future with an event like this.
>new event type
I feel like they should limit us in different ways. Letting us use whatever we want and then giving certain pairs a 5* buff is just a weird way to do it. Just make the fight normal and let us not pick certain characters then. Or give us some characters for free so that everyone can compete, like Genshin Impact did a while back.
>using abnormal/ non-meta teams
I used May, Brendan, Roxanne and Phoebe. The last three were in my rotation since I started playing the game. Maybe they're outclassed nowadays, but the support ones have very useful buffs, Brendan is still a good striker and May has only recently been added.
I guess it was fun for other people using Lisia or Winona, though.
Well, the difficulty only came from restricting us. I'm personally not a fan of that. Difficulty should come from mechanics. I guess this game will never have that, though.
>second time's the charm?
I hope so, but so far reading all the suggestions it doesn't seem like there's much hope to do this properly. Some suggest grids for certain pairs or just a 2* boost, but it wouldn't actually solve the core issue for me. It just makes things a little less frustrating.
I think the rewards were fine, but then again I breezed through it with Maxie and Archie. I guess that's where my issue comes from.
I would have liked to see the stuff they do in legendary events. Trying to creatively set up the fight so you can do more damage. Whether that's cancelling weather, flinching the right target, using other status effects, timing your attacks, timing your buffs, timing your healing. Those are all fun things to figure out.
That's much more fun to me than just having the right pairs.
So I don't think I was too harsh on this event. The entire approach of this event is wrong. It's really just a way to create a gap between those that have the right pairs and those that don't. Some say you can do it with other pairs as well, but most casuals aren't going to just spend hours trying to figure it out.
I agree with you on most points. As a ftp player, I am counting on other people funding the game so I can keep playing and the devs can keep making content, so I don't mind the huge focus on Kyogre and groudon. They can both be completed without the legendary. I would suggest that they get rid of the stamina requirement for replayability and theorycrafting as well as give some of the 3*/4* their grids. That would probably make it doable for most players who have been playing for a while
You don't actually waste any stamina if you lose or reset before losing.
*Reset before winning, and judging by people's opinions winning probably doesn't happen much so there's no need to worry about stamina lol
2x power boost for Hoen is enough. 5x is just overkill. Otherwise, the event was unexpected fun
I completely agree, this is a really fun concept for an event that is just a little too difficult. 3x multiplier would make this event perfect imo. People are blowing this way out of proportion, it's perfectly possible for any long-time player to beat both part 1s and with certain units (Brendan is a base game 5star and Phoebe and Wallace are pretty old too) it's possible to beat part 2s without Archie or Maxie. I personally have both but today I beat part 2 Archie with 4/5 EX Skyla, 4/5 NonEX Brendan, and no grid 2/5 Phoebe just to see if I could.
I haven't got May or Wallace and this event is pain
I mostly agree with you: this event is very very good (almost perfect!)... if it were permanent. As a limited time event, nah. Absolutely unreasonable. I'd love trying over and over and eventually coming back to this in a couple days/weeks/months and try it again.
Maybe you will hate me guys but i've enjoyed the event! Furthermore, its not a "must" event, since the only rewards are just a couple gems and pins, i think that this event would be really bad if the you need it for emblems or something like that (like in gloria event, which was a sh*t). I think that this event its an "endgame" difficult, just for day one players, or players that really enjoy the hard fights. And thats not completely bad, since if you cant complete it you arent losing anything important in the game.
But of course, the event its far away of be perfect. For example, one of the bad things that I see its the high cost of stamina! This event should be stamina free (or really low) so everyone can try many different strategies, and teams.
With "its for day one players" i tried to say that its for users that are playing this game since many time ago and have many ex units. Since is probably that you will have many ex units to help you if you dont have grou or kyo.
We're getting close to two years into this game. We shouldn't have events that are exclusive to players who have been here from the start.
Actualy it's exactly the opposite, because we're close to two year, we should start rewarding veterans with something a bit more challenging that lets us use all those units we've been collecting.
Actually, that's not what they said. There's a difference between veterans and day one players.
"With "its for day one players" i tried to say that its for users that are playing this game since many time ago and have many ex units. Since is probably that you will have many ex units to help you if you dont have grou or kyo." i've made this comment just right after the first, to explain it. I was trying to say veterans players, not just day one. If you started this game 3 months ago, this event will be imposible for you... But you arent going to lose anything important, so dont worry that much.
I do think we should have content that focuses on maxed characters. For example, lvl 135, theme skills unlocked, best gear, good lucky skill and probably also EX'd.
The issue is that the difference between a maxed character and a lvl 120, 1/5, no gear, no lucky skill and no theme skills just isn't nearly big enough. It also doesn't take too much effort to increase some of those stats.
When new characters come out, I already have the gear ready, plus I have enough stuff for the lucky skills. All it takes is some level cap material and sync orbs and my new character is good to go. Even this past week where I got 5 new characters, it just doesn't take much effort to make usable.
I agree that the difficulty is actually pretty refreshing. Kinda reminds me of the first few weeks of CS Master Mode, which also reminded me of the first few weeks when BV was introduced. Granted, I do have access to pairs that can clear it, so what could be refreshing for me can just be downright frustrating for others.
I agree with the "second time's the charm" bit - they essentially did this to the Time Trial event, making improvements over backlash from the first one by making the whole thing doable even without Raihan. But I do agree that there's a *lot* they can do to improve this event, both balance-wise and rewards-wise.
If anything, I also think that how they rewarded the pins/gems could've been more F2P-friendly. Instead of having to clear each stage thrice, they could do what most event missions do and require any of the stages to be cleared a total of 10 or 15 times. That way, those who don't have the right pairs for Part 2 can just keep on clearing Part 1 to get the rewards.
I’m not taking a side, but it’s quite a conundrum that if an event is super hard, we expect the rewards to be really good. But if the rewards are super good, then it’s not fair to the people who can’t complete it.
Well this thing will be the format of daily region rotation . Only galar and alola seems a big issue for now cause there aren't any great f2p units .
I was looking for this comment. I don't think I saw Galar as part of the schedule for June though. I'm hoping those events aren't going to be this tough because that would lock people out of BP rewards and that would suck more compared to some gems/pins imo
As someone who plays FFRK, i'm...used to the idea of using region focused teams, since FFRK has the torment, Dreambreaker and Dragon King fights, which require you to use realm based teams (FF1 teams, FF2 team, FF3 team, and so forth), and atleast in FFRK the penalty to using 1 "off-realm" character on the team isn't too bad if said character is really fucking good...and i don't mean DPS good, i mean support wise. And amusingly, the same thing happened here with the extreme event, since i've seen people run "off-region" supports like Sabrina and Skyla in their teams.
However, the extreme event is temporary, while the FFRK realm based stuff is perma content so you can wait for powercreep, although there are other realm based stuff, they either come back from time to time so if you miss it you can wait for it to return (the gilgamesh fights), or they are tied to weekly events which are for the most part piss easy (there are cid missions that require you to clear certain fights in the weekly event using realm based teams, but the rewards are so small that it's not that big of a deal if you don't do them)
So when i saw the extreme event it didn't even borthered me in the slightest because it was honestly inevitable that they would do something like this eventualy, and it makes sense because they have been "training" us to use variety of teams, the battle villa with the 9 pairs limit, legendary arena with the sync pair limit as well, the Champion stadium with locking your characters used forcing you to use diferent teams, the time trial event with the bonus units, events just giving bonuses from using certain pairs in it.
But with all this said and done, yes the event is indeed overtuned and they need to balance it better, and i feel we will have a time trial situation in our hands where the first time it came out it was bad, but the 2nd time it will be better since DeNA will try to improve the event, which is what happened with the time trial event, the most recent time trial was significantly better than the first one.
Also yes, 3* and 4* units need a grid, Roxane in particular would've been hillarious in these fights if they gave her Wide Guard a MPR grid tile LOL, on top of maybe stat debuffs when wide guard procs, or even team healing when it procs.
Winnoa with a few Rain Dance grid tiles also would've come in handy, although you only really need to refresh Rain once when the charizard uses sunny day.
I really hope that once Giovanni gets his grid, they go back and work on the 3* and 4* grids, if DeNA is going to make extreme events a thing in the future, they really need to work on the missing grids as well.
But...in the end..on the brightside, atleast this wasn't a galar event.
I don't even mind the restricted pool of characters so much. Reducing the scale to like 3x should do a lot to enable more flexibility. Mainly my problem is that the battle is so blatantly built to favor the new master pairs (of which I have one). Drastically reducing off-type damage is a shitty, coercive design choice.
Agree it’s a bit overtuned, but I enjoyed the challenge of figuring out the Maxie battle without owning Kyogre. It forced me to grid my recently 3/5 Wallace, who ended up being awesome and a unit I may use in other battles now that I know how he works.
Its basically a mini legendary arena with hoenn units only
Dont know why everyones so outraged, absolutely loved it
People just want a hard challenge but when they get it they want to win first try on AUTO mode while they have tea time lmao.
I don't agree. If we don't shit on it with all our might, they won't do it "2x", they will just give us 50 gems or something. We should be calm of course, but we shouldn't take this lying down.
The thing that you can't off type it irritates most most people I guess
I'm pretty sure you can off type it with steven, I think I saw a video with wally as well
Off type Maxie with Steven?
Yeah, agree 100%
Jesus, we complain everyday there is no content and now that there is some very difficult one we complain about it ahahah
(Assuming that the critics you made I agree 100%)
Apart from the new sync requirements (which obviously those people have to make money on this game, but still it's not fun), these events are for people who started to play long ago and otherwise we, veterans, don't have nothing to do, so, yes, this event (which should be better of course in the future) is a perfect try to give us a very difficult content
Then, as you said, we can argue and try to introduce something for the new players (which honestly this game is ONLY for new players since, as I said, for the veterans everything is soo easy) and so on, but I really appreciate finally they are doing something like that
Ya I agree. I enjoyed the challenge and once I played around with some pairs was able to complete it. I agree with many others that an event like this should include sync grids for units without them. Hoenn is my favourite region and I’ve focused on pairs from there. But even then a good majority of them were useless for this event.
For the haters:
If you don't like the event, then don't do it.
It's that simple.
This is not a race.
Please stop exhibiting the unjustly generalized 'toxic' behavior of Pokemon Fans.
You lost me in the first half, but I totally agree with all the improvements that could be made to this event. This kind of event really shouldn't have started without giving the f2p units grids and 6 star EX. Creating difficulty by giving us no viable supports is not fun for me. But scaling the multipliers higher for those units could have made a big difference.
I made my post complaining because I had been gone since probably Halloween, heard about kyogre and groudon stuff and since I like those pokémon I came back.
My biggest problem is that by current standards my units aren't invested and I'm not experienced using these units