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hot takes about futaba’s confidant and/or romancing her

hot takes about futaba’s confidant and/or romancing her

HapyPaul

Actually that seems to be a pretty common view of her character around here, however i completely disagree with it, and here is why. I don't think Futaba is a person as innocent and clueless about human interaction as you think she is. The main reason that made me think like that, is the fact that she was a shut in for only two years, the first 13 year of her life were normal, she had a good relationship with her mother, attend school, make a friend and was bullied, she had enough interaction with other people to know what a healty releationship is, there is a request on the third semester, when she states that even little kids realize when they are being mistreated, so she probabily could understend people very well at an early age she is a genious after all. Then there is the two years she spend locked in her room. In this time she wasn't just sleeping, she created medjed, hacked a lot of stuff, and was probabily playing all sorts of online games and discussing with people online about who is the best featherman, since we see in the story that she has no problem to interact with others online, she even says in mementos that she read doujins, those tiny details completely obliterate the light that people like to put her in, that she is a child in a teens body and have no idea what a relationship is or how the world works, i mean... the girl was hacking military databases and sites in name of "justice" long before the phanton thieves were a thing, if anything because of those experiences, she probabily have a better grasp on how the world works than the rest of the thieves..... cof cof makoto going face to face with a mafia boss thinking she would convince him by saying he is the worst and go home happily, Ryuji unable to control his anger and attacking a teacher whitout consider the consequences etc. And then there is the morality of their relationship. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with it, by the end of the game Ren leaves Tokyo, and she tells him that she will suspend her "rigth to not leave him" for now , but will claim it back once she becomes an Pscientist like her mother, so she is not dependant on him to live, but she still wants to be with him because after everything they gone through together, it dosen't feel "okay" whitout him around, and i belive this is a common feeling for most couples. And i think its really funny and hypocritical how people said that is bad and manipulative of Ren to date Futaba, but are totaly ok with him taking her to palaces that are literaly going to explode, where she can easily die, just because she asked him to and because he needs her nav skills, wich makes me think of only a few reasons someone could think like that, first they misinterpreat her character, second they are triying to be on a high moral ground to feel better about themselves, or the third one when is not about being a problematic ship or not, but being the ship they don't like the most, since is fairly common here for people to shit on ships they don't like by creating headcannons of why is not good for certains characters to be together, like "certain pair dosen't make sense" or "my favorite ship is the canon one for reasons". For me the best case scenario for Futaba, and for Sojiro as well is for her to start dating Ren and eventually they would become an actual family. Since she likes him even if the player choses to not go the romance route, just like all the other girls, i imagine that for her to being rejected by him and then having to ignore those feelings while having him around, possibily dating one of her closest friends, would be terrible for her, and the worst part is that she would most likely would grow a complex of not being "good enough" out of it, since she didn't connect as strongely with anyone else like she did with Ren, and it would probabily be very diffucult for her to do that with any other guy that dosen't know her background like Ren do, that would lead to an adult Futaba who never dated anyone, and when you reach that point in your life is really hard to overcome the felling of inferiority, that is something that Futaba definitly dosen't need. If you actually read that huge ass text, thanks i guess... i actually wrote it more to vent my frustration instead of wanting a reply. Futaba and Ren are my favorite ship, but every time someone post something about them, there is also someone to say how bad it is and all, it really saddens me how much people distorted something wholesome into something creepy, like Ren manipulating an non existent Futaba with a four year old mind.


Tetsu_Riken

I want to share this with the Futaba comuinity if that's fine with you


Tetsu_Riken

Dude you have points even I didn't notice and Im looking at making an entire theory about Futaba and Akira and I keep missing details Edit: the point for the his is to illustrate what I believe to be accurate to a degree but also to keep idiots from ever fucking saying she is his sister again and she is mentally too young for him to date again


HapyPaul

Sure, you shouldn't even need to ask for my permission, but thanks for doing it anyways. After all, those stoped being my thoughts and turned into arguments in the moment i posted them, good luck in your theory.


len_r3nn

you make a lot of really good points here, especially with the “not good enough” complex thing!! regarding my whole thing with akiren “manipulating” futaba, that was less of me “oh yeah the player would do that/he would canonically do that” and more of a “what if this were in the real world” thing. because people in the real world would definitely take advantage of her situation lmao i mean, even if she socialized with people irl when she actually went to school and stuff, she still shut herself in for…a long ass time. limiting herself to only online interactions for that long?? idk man.


HapyPaul

Wow, you read it!! Thanks And yeah, you're probably right about the "what if it was an real life scenario". I guess this is also one of the reasons why i don't feel uncomfortable when akiren dates the adult confidants, is the line between reality and romanticized fiction that allows that, because they're anime characters, we know that they won't do anything bad, unless they're villain's/antagonists. Anyway, nice chatting with you.


len_r3nn

yeah, every time i see someone romance kawakami or takemi, i just think, “if the genders were reversed, atlus would be cancelled” but yeah nice talk!!


xkcd-Hyphen-bot

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centaursTesticle536

I think it's sweet, and at the end of the day she CAN be away from Joker in public, it's shown pretty well even in the standard game. I don't see him as much of a crutch for her, more like a support blanket. Would she be fine without him? Yeah, probably. Would she be happier with him? Of course.


len_r3nn

good point. also your handle, holy shit lmao yeah, this entire post was probably just me overthinking that ONE line (“being okay without joker/can we skip that last promise”) because the way it was phrased sounded unhealthy to me lol.


MagicMagpie9

Honestly one of the reasons why I'm not keen on Futaba's romance *is* the fact that a large part of her confidant arc was learning how to be apart from him, and I personally feel like romancing her undermines that somewhat. It's why I don't like >!Sumire's either - whilst Sumi doesn't rely on Joker in order to be okay socially, she does admire him to the point of him being such an intrinsic part of her identity that it manifests in her outfit, and I'm personally not keen on that. Futaba and Sumire are two girls who rely heavily on Joker, and I personally think non-romance routes work better for them because it then highlights their growing independence.!< That's my own two cents, anyway :'D Ofc people can ship what they want/romance who they want I just don't personally vibe with the ship :'D


Panory

Considering the difference in Futaba's Romance vs. Friendship Rank 10, she's arguably better off in terms of independence. Friend Rank 10 is a shopping trip, she goes with Joker, the strikes out on her own for half an hour or so, then they meet back up and head back. Romance Rank 10 takes place after that trip, except Joker had no part in it. She went to Akihabara by herself and just went shopping entirely on her own.


MagicMagpie9

Fairs - I will admit I haven't done Futaba's Rank Ten Romance, I was just going off what I'd seen in Ann's, in that the start of it is the same in both friendship and romance and then just the ending is different :'D I figured that they would still give her that independence because it's what Atlus wanted to do with her arc, but I just,,,,,,, idk, maybe it's just me, but I still don't particularly like putting two characters together in a romantic context when one used to be rather dependent on the other, but that is just my personal thing, I'm aware that other people have different views on it :'D Narratively I still prefer the Friendship route because it just feels more natural and fitting to me, but that Romance route Akihabara trip does sound nice tbh, although I will admit that I do like how Friendship does it, in that the route starts and ends in Akihabara - it feels nicely cyclical in that sense, so the change in Futaba is more apparent because we're *seeing* her thrive in the same environment that she struggled in before, rather than being told she was okay, but again that's just me :'D


Panory

True, though it mostly a limitation of Futaba's arc and the game's structure. It's hard to witness and event when the whole purpose of the event is that you aren't there to witness it.


MagicMagpie9

Yeah, nah it isn't a drawback as such because the end result is the same, I just personally like starting and ending in Akihabara, but that's just me vibing with cyclical structures and stuff akfhdls I love it when stories do that thing where characters come back to where they started and realise how much they changed, it's just a trope I really like :'D Doesn't make the romance Rank Ten any lesser or anything it's just what I vibe with :'D


Lyxert

Okay, I usually try to not get involved in these types of discussions because people can ship whomever they want, but I'm genuinely curious about the way you think now. You think Sumi's romance arc is bad because her outfit is similar to Ren's given the fact that she looks up to him and sees him as rebellious, which then influences her? Yet, you ship him with someone that murdered several people including parents of two members, stalked the PT's for half of the game, and then attempted to murder Ren twice? Where is the logic here?


MagicMagpie9

>!I suppose my reasoning is that Akechi's identity isn't Ren. Akechi has his own life, he's independent, and yes Ren is an important part of his life but Ren isn't his identity. Sumi's *identity* became Ren (and Kasumi). She's a character whose arc is about figuring out who she is and re-establishing her sense of identity, and yet her own PT outfit isn't even really *her*, it's a mix of Ren and Kasumi. Personally, I feel like rejecting her then allows for her to grow apart from him and become more of her own person, rather than an attachment to Ren, because she's not really *ready* for a relationship during the game. I'm not infantilising her or anything, she's just not in the right state of mind to be entering a relationship. She's trying to re-establish her sense of *self* because she thought she was her dead sister for so long, and also she ended up latching onto this guy who she ultimately didn't really *know* that well (her outfit is Joker-fied upon her fake awakening in October, and you don't need a specific confidant level to trigger it iirc, which means she can be Joker-fied at Rank One), to the point that he became a part of her identity.!< >!Akechi might also be mentally unhealthy during the game, but he has the benefit of not being a romance option so I can just imagine them getting together after the events of the game. Plus, Akechi and Ren are distinctly their own people and although they're important to each other, their identities aren't each other. They're equals and rivals, and I just prefer that dynamic over the senpai/kouhai relationship where the kouhai looks up to the senpai (and meanwhile the senpai is just kinda *there*, vibing - Sumi isn't part of his character arc). Ren doesn't grow in return - sure he learns gymnastics, but his character isn't affected by her the way she's affected by him, and then given their kind senpai/adoring kouhai routine along with Sumi re-establishing her sense of self, right then in the game their relationship doesn't really feel wholly equal, if you get me? Whereas an important part of Ren and Akechi's dynamic is them being equal and challenging each other - Ren doesn't *help* Akechi during his confidant, they just talk and play games and do stuff together for the most part. Akechi isn't reliant on Ren, and vice-versa. Although they're important to each other's arcs (admittedly Akechi affects Ren less because of his blank-slate protag status, but the final 2/2 decision is primarily about Akechi, and the final cutscene with Akechi emphasises the promise the two of them made), they're not dependent on each other the way Sumi was dependent on Ren, and I personally don't really like romances where characters are dependent on each other/one reliant on the other? They're fun to explore, but the 'endgame' status for such relationships in my own stories is separation, where they're still friends but recognise that spending time being single and figuring things out is best for them right then.!< You can ship Sumi and Ren, I'm not saying you can't! This is just my own personal viewpoint, I'm not saying you have to agree with or share it :'D


len_r3nn

exactly how i feel about >!sumi’s!< confidant arc as well! especially the part where she was like, “how do i want senpai to see me? hm…senpai senpai” when trying to decide on what clothes to try on. i was like bitch (that’s a joke she’s not a bitch she’s too swag for that, except for when i use “bitch” without a negative connotation, which is actually pretty frequently now that i think about it), no, don’t base what you wear on protag’s opinion !!! find your own style at your own pace!!! ffs >!sumi!< you’re great but. jeez. yeah, i always was a bit iffy with both of their confidants being dependent on protag in one way or another, so i definitely agree w/ u on that one!! edit: fuck i forgot this isnt discord and that’s not how you block things


Tetsu_Riken

Well here my take on the rejection as a Futaba fan If you ask me she doesn't seem to get free of joker in a plutoic route she seems to still need him a lot under the romantic route while yes she is depending on him I think she looks to improve even further as in she can go out alone vs in the plutoic route she still absolutely needs him around in public still so if you ask me I think she would improve with joker and would work harder for her sake and his because she knows she always has someone who can help her if she needs it and in turn help him when he needs it But that's just my take Edit: I'd like to add the protagonist from what we see in game is not the kind of person that would take advantage of others and some traits from other media he is kinda shy with women


len_r3nn

you’re definitely right about her still probably being dependent on joker, regardless of whether or not the player romances her!! (i’m gonna assume you mean platonic when you say plutoic) i can definitely see what you mean about joker not being the type of person to take advantage of her, or literally anyone. that idea was coming from the perspective of, “what if this was a real-life relationship occurring in the real world?”; basically, a “what-if” scenario to reinforce the idea that futaba’s lack of experience *could have* led to that happening, had the protagonist been a significantly worse person. anyways, thank you for your input on this matter!!


Tetsu_Riken

I get what you mean if it were any other male character around her age even if we were to place her with let's say Yu or Makoto who both are almost as bad Yu just being inept and quite straight forward mostly but definitely has a hidden playboy And Makoto being literally emtionaless Or even Ryuji (who wouldn't but in a hypothetical world) the relationship would be an issue and I even have issues with the adult relationships Joker and Futaba I think even if there is a power dynamic at play I don't think it's an issue just in this case because of the personalities at play and I'd say it's about the same for Joker and Yoshizawa because there is something similar at play there